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Hey Ratanoogians! Don't forget, the chatbox is only for casual chat. Please post actual questions in the relevant section in the forums. :)
@  Caryn : (20 July 2017 - 09:01 AM) There are some updates. I see the forum banner isn't working either, so assume Tails hasn't received the update email. Looks like we can't use it for 3rd party IMG pic posting anymore. Not sure if existing images used on the forums will be restricted or only future posts. Will have to find another file host site :(
@  DiscoMoose : (19 July 2017 - 10:14 AM) hey Lolly, not that I know of . . .
@  lollyh : (17 July 2017 - 03:07 PM) Hey all.just received an email about photobucket & upgrading your account.anyone else receive this email?.:unsure:
@  Rattieroos : (16 July 2017 - 11:17 AM) Hey all, so we can never learn enough... I still don't know why some of my rats chew paper?? They actually eat it. Does anyone know why? :bigeyerat:
@  Rattieroos : (15 July 2017 - 07:15 PM) Thanks Caryn and Lolly, I'm assuming it's mammary, don't know for sure yet. My vet is on leave :( only back on the 24th! I'll see if we can wait but if it grows by next week I'll have to take her to the other vet.
@  lollyh : (14 July 2017 - 10:44 AM) oh no roos. :ratsad: that's awful.i am so sorry. *hugs* .7 months is young.
@  Caryn : (14 July 2017 - 07:13 AM) Ah no, that's terrible. Had one girl, Apple, who also got her first one really young. Didn't have a vet back then who could spay either. Sending :goodvibes:
@  Rattieroos : (13 July 2017 - 11:18 PM) I found a lump on Peaches late this afternoon :ratsad: I think it might be a mammary tumor based on positioning :( She's only about 7 months now. It was such a shock! :ratsad:
@  Caryn : (12 July 2017 - 01:46 PM) Sorry, Tails is the one who organises the Christmas in July. I don't get involved with that unfortunately. Hopefully she will still run it like usual this year :bigeyerat:
@  lollyh : (12 July 2017 - 12:53 PM) awww no roos & amber.i am sorry to hear this. :ratsad: but i understand *hugs* .maybe caryn or tails can do a post & see who is able to partake or not. :) my finances are also tight.
@  Amber : (12 July 2017 - 12:00 PM) I'm so sorry Lolly but I can't afford to be part of Christmas in July either :ratsad:
@  Rattieroos : (11 July 2017 - 09:40 PM) Seriously no money for Christmas in July :ratsad:
@  Rattieroos : (11 July 2017 - 09:39 PM) Thanks Loll :D
@  lollyh : (11 July 2017 - 03:09 PM) Soo its JUly fellow noogans,are we still gonna have xmas in july?. :wub: :wub:
@  lollyh : (09 July 2017 - 10:41 PM) shoo roos,that is awsome news with emo, :clap: .hope he continues that way. *hugs*
@  Rattieroos : (09 July 2017 - 07:16 PM) :D
@  DiscoMoose : (09 July 2017 - 07:08 PM) That's so awesome about Emo! Well done Emo!! You go boy!
@  Rattieroos : (09 July 2017 - 12:47 PM) Correction ~ his IS a black Berkie. Not was :ratno: He's just so rusted now that he's not so black anymore.
@  Rattieroos : (09 July 2017 - 12:44 PM) Had my mischief of 5 boys running around on the bed with me just now.. still too sore to do much... anyway... I was just thinking and wanted to share...... My grandpa Emo is almost 2 yrs and 4months and he's never needed a vet!!!!! That is soooo awesome, he was a black Berkie from a home litter and we never even knew who his father was. :yogiedance: :tummykiss: :Kiss: my precious children. Love them all sooooo much. Just thought I'd share :D :P
@  Rattieroos : (09 July 2017 - 12:43 AM) Thanks Moose, I just looked now and her neck ones have completely cleared and the hair has grown back. :yay: and that was without using the regal. She still has a few smaller ones that she scratches open but I left her for a few days in the bigger cage to settle with Duff and was so chuffed when I saw her neck now :D

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Order of introduction?


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#1
Amy

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Hello fellow rattie parents :)

 

Last week I adopted a little PEW girl named Luna who is very brave and settling in nicely.  I have read lots and lots about introductions on Ratanooga Forums and in the rat handbook and on other sites too.  I know that when they do meet face to face in the bath it needs to be one at a time.  I was just wondering who Luna should meet first - Mama or Nibbler?  Mama is older and Nibbler is about the same age as Luna (maybe 2 weeks difference).  Both Mama and Nibbler are very sniffy and curious when smelling Luna through the cage bars or both her and their cages and when they go into her cage when she is out free roaming in another room.  Luna, however, is quite confrontational.  Her hairs stands on end she she gets quite defensive.  She is getting better and better each day though.  Should I wait until their is no sign of this hair raising etc. until they meet in the bath?  Anyway back to the main question of this post: should Luna meet Mama or Nibbler first in the bath?  I can't decide which would be better to make the introductions as easy as possible.  Mama is older than her and so maybe dominance won't be such an issue as Luna is probably more likely to submit to her than to Nibbler, her peer.  Or will that make it worse and she should rather meet her new bestie Nibbler first?  Sorry, I am overthinking this so much!  But I really want to make sure that there is the best possible outcome.

 

Thanks for any and all advice!



#2
Caryn

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Might be best to wait till Luna isn't too defensive.

I always introduce all my rats at once. Introducing one at a time rarely works as an existing rat may be fine with the new one but behave completely differently when they are back with their family members again around the newbie. Or at least that's been my experience.  I put all my current girls in the bath, then put the new ones in.  


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#3
Amy

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Thank you so much Caryn! Ok all at once it is then. And I will wait until Luna is ready to meet them. She is progressing really well so I am hoping that it will be in the next few days.

#4
Amber

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Hi Amy, I can't offer much advice unfortunately. I do put my whole mischief in the bath with the newbie when doing intros. I find single rat intros more difficult than double rat intros (two newbies vs one) but I think that is because I have such a large mischief. (8 currently) so I don't think my experience is really relevant to yours right now.

Good luck!

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My Loves in Heaven: Sammy, Erza , Rose, Vanessa, Katarina   :ratangel:


#5
Amy

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Thanks Amber :)

#6
Rattieroos

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Can't offer anything now but wanted to say congRATS on the new baby and hope all settle well soon. *hugs*
My current Ratties: Dove, Marybelle, Rosy, Ivy, Peaches, Plum and Duff (girls) Thunder, Nibbs, Doodle and Wallee (neutered boys) then my intact boys: Emo, Roo, Rodger and Dodger :ratlol: :tummykiss: :Kiss:

Always remembered, always in my heart, RIP my children: Sandy (our first ratty love) Pepper, Mickey, Snowy, Cloudy, Kellogs, Snoekie, Thing 1, Wotnot, Thing 2, Mischief, Monty, Barney, Seamus, Dolores aka Dilly, Jerry, Brian, Alfred, Patches, Stewie, Squeak, Bubble, Treble, Hayley, Onyx, Milo, Roxie, baby Bailey, FiFi, Bass and Bangerang :bigeyecry: :ratangel:

RIP my doggy loves: Andy and Toffee, loved and missed forever :cry:

#7
CindyR

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I have always just put together, run out of the room and come back 2 hours and hope that there are no problems  :ratgiggle:  :ratgiggle:

 

I had some really easy intro's and some not as great but still ok.  Some babies will be very defensive and scream blue murder, but after a while they start to open.

 

Try the bath or a neutral area and see what happens.  You also don't want to wait too long because as rats get older it becomes difficult to introduce.

Just remember, no blood then it's fine.  She will most probably carry on like banshees at first, but they're normally just being melodramatic.  Just keep as eye out.



#8
Amy

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Thanks fellow rat parents :) on Sunday I tried the first face to face intro in the bath. Nibbler and Mama were totally freaked out and just focused all their attention on escape. Which they did very successfully again and again. So I got in the bath with them all. Mama and Nibbler just climbed up onto my shoulders and sat for a bit and then made their escape repeatedly. I switched to plan b and sat on the bathroom floor with everybody. Mama and Nibbler were very chilled and sniffyou and friendly. Luna was a mean bully and pinned them down hard with paws on the neck and freezing over them. Mama and Nibbler totally submitted and just lay on their backs in terror. Then when Luna let them go I thought oh hey that was ok. But then she just hounded them and kept trying to bully them while they just tried to etc away eventually climbing me for refuge and I couldn't are it any more so I called it a day and separated them into their own free roaming areas again. I have been too scared to try again. I totally relate to you Cindy just running out the room cos watching that is too hectic. I just wanted to protect my babies and I am sure me being freaked out totally didn't help! I will try again soon. Probably tomorrow night. Bathroom floor with me in the bath so they can't come to me for help. Shower head at the ready to spray if there is a huge fight. I will try leave them and let Luna harass them for a while and hopefully she will stop after a bit and all will be good. Luna is already about 5 months old and Nibbler is about 6 months. Mama is about 8 or 9 months. Poor girl was still a baby when she had Nibbler and her brothers.

I shall try my best to be strong and let the bullying happen unless there is blood. Aaaah! This is so difficult for me. Haha. I reckon cos Mama and Nibbler are putting up no fight it is not such a bad intro.

Thanks for all the advice and well wishes. It helps to know that I am not alone and that others have gone through all this before.

Nibbler is chilling on my lap now cleaning herself and I am watching Luna through the windows to the sunroom of my flat climbing all over the laundry rack. I should probably nab them both and put them in the bathroom now. Mama is sleeping in her favourite nest behind my chair.
Woah essay. Sorry.
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#9
Amy

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Aah I just chucked them all in the bathroom together and I stood in the bath. Then moved my way down to sit on the floor with them. It went so well! A bit of tackling and pinning and squeaking. No biting. Some stand up face off staring and boxing. Lots of butt sniffing. Nibbler power groomed Mama. But pretty good I reckon. All went well! Yay!

I will do it again tomorrow and for linger and keep that up until they are chilled and don't need supervision so I can leave them in there for hours together. Then they can move in together.

Wow this is much harder work then I thought it would be.
Than I thought it would be! Aah apologies for the bad grammar there.
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#10
Rattieroos

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It's not easy to witness when our babies come running to us for rescue :( Wish all intros would be easy. Some personalities are just way stronger than others. I must say i think overall my boy intros have been easier than the girls, even though it should be the other way. Don't think we can ever really tell.
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My current Ratties: Dove, Marybelle, Rosy, Ivy, Peaches, Plum and Duff (girls) Thunder, Nibbs, Doodle and Wallee (neutered boys) then my intact boys: Emo, Roo, Rodger and Dodger :ratlol: :tummykiss: :Kiss:

Always remembered, always in my heart, RIP my children: Sandy (our first ratty love) Pepper, Mickey, Snowy, Cloudy, Kellogs, Snoekie, Thing 1, Wotnot, Thing 2, Mischief, Monty, Barney, Seamus, Dolores aka Dilly, Jerry, Brian, Alfred, Patches, Stewie, Squeak, Bubble, Treble, Hayley, Onyx, Milo, Roxie, baby Bailey, FiFi, Bass and Bangerang :bigeyecry: :ratangel:

RIP my doggy loves: Andy and Toffee, loved and missed forever :cry:

#11
Caryn

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lol Girls are total cows!  

 

But yes, I must admit when I first started intros I'd panic at the first squeal.  Now after years of going through it, I hear them scream blue murder and pay no attention as mean as that sounds :P   It gets easier to tell what's seriously aggressive and to be concerned about and what's just normal pushing and bullying for an intro.  Sounds like your intros are going fine though with all the usual stuff, nothing to be worried about :)


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#12
Amber

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lol yea sounds like it's going fine so far :)
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My Fur Kids: Angel, Raven, Mira, Belle, Selene, Clover, Raichu, Tsarevich, Phelene

 

My Loves in Heaven: Sammy, Erza , Rose, Vanessa, Katarina   :ratangel:


#13
Amy

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Thanks everybody.  Ja sheesh they run to me for help and rescue and I JUST DIE!  I am practicing deep breathing though - haha!  They have spent about half an hour together in the bathroom each evening this week and it is largely the same.  My plan is for them to spend at least an hour (hopefully more) together tomorrow during the day when they are sleepy.  I will try my best to do the "run out of the room" technique so I can't see their little faces of fear :(  

 

Sorry about the silly questions, but I am such an over-thinker and extra researcher!  Do they need to be 100% chilled with each with no dominance things before they move into a cage together?

 

Also after the bathroom hangouts the next step is to let them run around the flat all together?  I am worried that if I do this there will be territory fights as they each have their little favourite nests and stashes around the house.  So is it better to move them into a cage together that is all clean and re-organised with brand new bedding etc.?  Then they are stuck in a small space together that I can more easily monitor to make sure all is well.  Then I will clean out all the little stashes and nests around the house and wipe everything down to get rid of their respective smells so free roaming time is more neutral too.  Sorry again about all the questions!



#14
Caryn

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Sorry about the silly questions, but I am such an over-thinker and extra researcher!  Do they need to be 100% chilled with each with no dominance things before they move into a cage together?

 

Nope not at all.  I only do the bathtub once off personally.

 

My girls are also free roam, so I put them all into a cage together overnight for one or two nights to force them to interact and get used to each other in closed quarters and if nothing serious is happening then I let them loose after doing a thorough clean of everything.  

 

Rule of thumb is that there may be squealing, squeaking, power-grooming, scuffles, etc  and there always are to some degree.  But as long as no blood is drawn, let them sort themselves out.  If you separate them at the first sign of scuffles or squealing you're just prolonging the whole thing.  They have to be left alone to sort out their new family structure.  The bathtub is just a neutral "hello who are you" phase.  I guarantee you that the way they behave in there will never be the same as out of the bathtub anyway.  It's more a chance for them to just meet before the actual intro starts if that makes sense? :)


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#15
Rattieroos

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Amy, no question is a silly question and never feel you have to apologize for asking anything. All that means for us is that you want to do things the best as you can and that's a good thing :)

Like Caryn said, I also don't do the bath more than once. But sometimes i even use a couch or bed that is neutral territory for all of them. You haven't had anything major happen yet so I would also say move onto the next step. A good idea is to give the cage a thorough clean with vinegar water as that neutralizes the wee smell. When you re-hang things in the cage, also after a wash, try put things in different places. Like change the structure of the cage a bit so that it seems different or new to Mamma and Nibbler as well. Even wash the food bowls and put clean dry food in. Basically try get the old smells out as much as you can... then plonk them all in at the same time and either watch for a bit or sit in a room close by so you can hear if there's a scuffle (not the occasional squeak, but a fight, you WILL hear the difference)

What I sometimes do is while redoing and cleaning the cage is I put all of them into a small travel cage..so no one can run away or hide in a favorite spot.. and have them in the room with me ( only during intros mind you) then put them into the cleaned cage once I'm done if their time in the little cage together has been without incident.

I would personally get them happy in their new cage together and give them a few days to adjust before letting them free roam together. Otherwise if Luna gets a scare or they have a go at each other she might run and hide and then it'll be difficult to get her out. Always a 'rule of note' the longer a scared rat stays out the more scared they become.

Now, having said all that, it hasn't always worked 100% I still use different methods based on the rats personalities etc some intros take ages and others very quick with little incident. Some I have used other methods as well and some took months of short visits everyday and eventually I got a different cage completely. Some people put a drop of vanilla essence on the bums above their tails but again, that doesn't always work.

It does sound like they'll be fine, aside from being shy, scared and/or inquisitive, which are normal. Just make sure you've cleaned the cage well and please let us know how it goes *hugs*

Edited by Rattieroos, 02 June 2017 - 01:00 PM.

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My current Ratties: Dove, Marybelle, Rosy, Ivy, Peaches, Plum and Duff (girls) Thunder, Nibbs, Doodle and Wallee (neutered boys) then my intact boys: Emo, Roo, Rodger and Dodger :ratlol: :tummykiss: :Kiss:

Always remembered, always in my heart, RIP my children: Sandy (our first ratty love) Pepper, Mickey, Snowy, Cloudy, Kellogs, Snoekie, Thing 1, Wotnot, Thing 2, Mischief, Monty, Barney, Seamus, Dolores aka Dilly, Jerry, Brian, Alfred, Patches, Stewie, Squeak, Bubble, Treble, Hayley, Onyx, Milo, Roxie, baby Bailey, FiFi, Bass and Bangerang :bigeyecry: :ratangel:

RIP my doggy loves: Andy and Toffee, loved and missed forever :cry:

#16
Amy

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Ok thanks so much for the advice!  Shew I am quite relieved to hear all that.  Alright I am going to try and mentally prepare myself to do it tonight and chuck them all in a clean cage together that is rearranged with brand new bedding!  I will let you know how it goes.   :crossfingers:  They are running around and nesting and snoozing now so I reckon that I will do it after dinner.  Or if I am too chicken tomorrow morning  :ratgiggle:

:thanx:


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#17
Rattieroos

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All the best :crossfingers:
My current Ratties: Dove, Marybelle, Rosy, Ivy, Peaches, Plum and Duff (girls) Thunder, Nibbs, Doodle and Wallee (neutered boys) then my intact boys: Emo, Roo, Rodger and Dodger :ratlol: :tummykiss: :Kiss:

Always remembered, always in my heart, RIP my children: Sandy (our first ratty love) Pepper, Mickey, Snowy, Cloudy, Kellogs, Snoekie, Thing 1, Wotnot, Thing 2, Mischief, Monty, Barney, Seamus, Dolores aka Dilly, Jerry, Brian, Alfred, Patches, Stewie, Squeak, Bubble, Treble, Hayley, Onyx, Milo, Roxie, baby Bailey, FiFi, Bass and Bangerang :bigeyecry: :ratangel:

RIP my doggy loves: Andy and Toffee, loved and missed forever :cry:

#18
Amber

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Hope it goes well Amy! :D

My Fur Kids: Angel, Raven, Mira, Belle, Selene, Clover, Raichu, Tsarevich, Phelene

 

My Loves in Heaven: Sammy, Erza , Rose, Vanessa, Katarina   :ratangel:


#19
Amy

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I did it on Friday night!  Super clean cage with brand new bedding.  Everything (levels water bowls, etc.) all rearranged so that it was like a new cage.  Everything was fine.  some pinning and squeaking and stuff but mostly totally fine.  I kept waking up all night on Friday and checking on them and Nibbler and Luna were even cuddling on one of the hammocks in the early hours of the morning.  YAAAAAAAAAY!  Since then they have had free roaming time lots yesterday and more cuddles last night.  What a relief.  

 

Thank you all so very much for the advice and support! :) :) :)

 

My happy ratties also say thank you  :yogiedance:


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#20
Caryn

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That's fantastic news :clap: :yay:


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